Update:
A couple of points of clarifications about the survey--it is not a vote and it will be up for a couple more days. In an email exchange yesterday evening, Superintendent Susan Marks said: "The survey is just a quick way of getting the pulse from the community, staff and students. It is not a vote, but can be used with additional information that the board will consider." She also said that she will keep the survey on line for "a couple of days" and she is hoping that the board reschedules their meeting for next Tuesday to make a decision.
Superintendent Susan Marks wants to know how you want to make up snow days. Marks has posted a survey on the Norwalk Public Schools website asking for community input on the matter. The three choices are 1) use the days in June 2) use February vacation 3) use spring break days.
In the survey, Marks says that the district has four make up days to meet the state's minimum requirement of 180 days of school. (There have been six now days, but the district allotted two extra days this year). "These days are usually made up at the end of the year, however with so many days to make up, I am interested in your opinions on the make up days," writes Marks.
Tuesday's Board of Education meeting at which make-up days was slated to be discussed has been canceled due to weather conditions.
Tuesday, February 1, 2011
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Give Marks credit on this one; at least she is interested in what we are thinking. My vote is to take February vacation. We've barely been back since Christmas, and CMTs are right around the corner. Those with pre purchased tickets can be dealt with individually. Every teacher, administrator, and aide gets 15 sick days, plus their two personal days. They can use them if they need to go away. It will give us valuable instructional time this winter.
ReplyDeleteAgreed! The days for makeup in June are worthless anyway since most classrooms are very hot during the end of June without air conditioning.
ReplyDeleteStudents need time in school now to be prepared for the testing coming up at all levels, CMT CAPT and AP. We cannot afford to miss more instructional time during this critical period. Losing part of Feb vacation is the sensible solution that will benefit Norwalk students. Those with prior commitments for Feb need to know this week to plan accordingly.
Let's hope a decision is made soon.
I agree, but she needs to make the decision this week. She's got the information from the survey and now she needs to use it to form her own opinion. Everyone should know what we will be doing to make the days up ASAP.
ReplyDeleteOur family travels in April, so I'd hate to lose April vacation. I think Feb solution is interesting, but with the kind of winter we are having, I think it is unlikely we won't lose some of those days to additional snow. With all considered, I say do the honorable thing and stick with the plan that was published on the calendar that families have planned around. Use the MU days in June. Also isn't there some kind of teacher meeting day in March? Can't they meet another time in June and give us back that school day for kids?
ReplyDeleteRight now schools are getting the students ready for CMTs. With all the days off, practices have been on and off. February is a good solution so teachers can continue working with the students. I have talked to several teachers from different schools and they all agree that February vacation is a good option so they can continue working with CMT preparations.
ReplyDeleteTo all those who want to make up the days in June please consider that your children are in classrooms where the temperature is generally over 90 degrees. Most schools are not air conditioned, the windows don't have screens and fans barely do anything to help lower the temperature.
ReplyDeleteI vote for doing away with February break this year and going forward as well. Do we really need a weeklong break before CMT testing?
ReplyDeleteDid it make sense to give the option to add the days in June? We are currently at June 28th I believe and with another day probably tomorrow.......Feb break just makes the most sense with so many days lost in January--kids need some consistency!
ReplyDeleteMy school is air conditioned, but last summer it was 100+. It doesn't work and everyone was miserable.
ReplyDeleteKids are really checked out once the middle of June comes around. Take some or all of the February break. We need to get some momentum going. If teachers have pre paid tickets or reservations, fine. Deal with each of those situations individually. They can use their personal days or sick time. For goodness sake, everyone gets 15 a year. Where else does that happen? When I worked in corporate, 50 weeks with 2 measly weeks vacation, we got 5 sick days.
Yikes.. it's 6:50 p.m. on Tuesday night and the site posts an error with the survey (it timed out). Is anyone else experiencing this? The problem is that many people may not have visited the site yet and it needs more time to gather data. What a great idea, by the way, to seek input from all interested parties!
ReplyDeleteMarks is on spot for asking for feedback - even from the students. I hope she has the tenacity to stay with us for a while.
ReplyDeleteMost say, I am a little stunned by the individual who suggested that staff can take sick days if they have vacation plans in Febuary. Can you imagine this happening in private industry? Yikes, we would be fired.
Whatever the time, can we make the "make up" days full days so the kids can have some sense of structure and understand that it is a serious school day.
ReplyDelete4:57--but once you are approved for a vacation--your employer would not yank it from you, or maybe they would? the teachers who have paid for tickets and have planned vacations should not be penalized.
ReplyDeleteWell, how would you imagine this would be handled? Some people would have to work the week in February or April, while others would get a week off to take a vacation? Does that seem fair to you?
ReplyDeleteDoes it seem fair to those teachers that would lose thousands of dollars spent on a vacation that they planned during their scheduled vacation time? Teachers are restricted to certain weeks for vacation....often times spending more that people in the business world who can take vacation whenever they want.
ReplyDeleteYou know most parents will do as they please and take kids out of school if they have vacation plans. Teachers with Feb vacation plans need to know ASAP if the district decides to use some of Feb break for makeups. Students need the time in school now for all of the missed instruction and to get ready for March testing. We have had so many days off and so much momentum lost. Let's face it makeups in June are a waste as it is so hot no one is productive. Vote for February, it's what is best for the children!!!
ReplyDeleteFebruary makes the most sense as oppossed to April break.....by April the test will be over. We need the time now.
ReplyDeleteI believe it would be worthwhile if someone could post some information on:
ReplyDeleteHow many or what percentage of our classrooms are air conditioned? Also, do the ventilation systems work properly most of the time? If not, why?
What has been the average temperatures in Norwalk -- a New England town -- during the latter weeks in June for the last few years? I looked this up a while back and it wasn't what one would normally call hot.
I work in a very old, non-air conditioned school in NYC with poor ventilation, but it's generally not that hot in June -- even though it's usually about four or five degrees hotter than in Norwalk.
I am not suggesting that the school year be extended into late June. But it is important to note that many districts across the country work that late every year, with or without air conditioning. Teachers are expected to teach, and students are expected to learn, whether it's June 20 or June 29.
I voted for February, too. A day of school is a day of school - except when the all-important, all-consuming tests are just around the corner. The make-up days would probably have greater effect if they were spent prepping for the CMTs rather than dragging out the school year in June - and I say this even as someone who believes the U.S. needs to shift to year-round school pronto.
ReplyDeleteI agree, February is a better option. The students need to get ready for the CMT's. April or June too late.If we look carefully we will be using days in June too. We need to get the students ready for this test.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of the survey. When will it be pulled from the website? At some point soon a decision must be made. Dr. Marks if you are reading this what is the timeline for making the decision regarding make-up days?
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if there is a way to view the ongoing results of the survey once he/she votes? Am I overlooking a link? It seems the viewing was offered just once upon voting. If this process could be slightly tweaked, I'd suggest we be able to view the ongoing results of the voting as it takes place.
ReplyDeleteI think there are some things to consider as well:
ReplyDeleteI think everyone out there would agree that this is the most bizarre winter we've had in recent memory. While something needs to be done to adjust this years' calendar, we need to look at ways to change future calendars as well, which I believe the committee will address. Many of the posts on this thread and others seem to suggest that change is in order for the benefit of our students and our district.
In terms of the standardized tests, has anyone (i.e. a sup't. or admin.) thought of contacting the State Education Commisioner to try to move the dates for CMT's or CAPT? Since these are Connecticut only tests and the entire state is having to deal with this, wouldn't it make sense to move the dates to at least the END of March? By doing this, it would be easier to take days away from April vacation where the threat of snow days would be minimal, and keep the Feb. vacation w/o running the risk of still having snow days. Also, with the 11th hour this is getting to be, no one, parents or teachers, would have to worry about cancelling any plans.
We still have 2 (or is it 3?) more days in June until we reach the 30th. We can also look at eliminating the March prof. day and adding that to the end of the year. I think at this point we need to exhaust the days in June, then consider taking off days in April. Granted all state tests would be completed then, but you are still gaining valuable and meaningful instructional time.
It has been done before and this years' current scenario is asking all of us to think "outside of the box".
If they choose to make up days from scheduled vacation time--Feb. or April, do not automatically believe that the days will be more productive. During the 95-96 school year they took days from April vacation and the combination of teachers and kids with vacation plans turned the week into a class-covering/substitute fiasco for the schools; not to mention absenteeism on the part of "vacationing" kids. Granted, CMTs were given in the fall back then. However, the school calendar was agreed upon with make up days until June 30, of course never thinking that they would ever be needed...right. Norwalk has a longer school year than a lot of other districts due to more time off earlier in the year. These make up days were adopted even in light of last year's problems. Let the kids go to school on the PD day scheduled for March 25 to get a day back. Most school districts are in the same boat as far as CMT prep is concerned, so in that sense the playing field is level, and everyone knows that the weather will be blamed for lower scores, right? Tacking on so-called productive days in Feb. won't change things much, as instruction has been disjointed at best since the middle of Dec. Think of how well-rested the children will be before they tackle the tests. Who knows--they may do better in spite of perceived productive time. Yes, it gets hot in late June. That's because it is SUMMER by then. News flash--it also can be very hot at the beginning of the school year because, yes- it is still SUMMER! If last year wasn't enough to create calendar changes, perhaps this year has made some people pay attention.
ReplyDeleteTAking away from Feb still makes more sense....most kids are not going away--it is just another week to sit at home and do nothing.
ReplyDeleteI voted, and honestly to me it does not matter. I would like to know how many teachers will be absent in February if Feb is used as make up days. If you get a large response of absence - this means subs, so how effective will the week be for additional CMT instruction when you have subs? Teachers are not the only folks that have plans for February - what about the secretaries, adminstravies, etc in each school? Do we pay for temps to provide support to the school? How about principals, do we pull them out of their vacation time because central office made last minute decisions? There is a lot to consider here.
ReplyDeleteI don't belive that principals and sec't have the same schedule as teachers do.....even if they did, same situation for April.
ReplyDeleteAs a teacher I am concerned that the district calendar promised a set number of MU days at the end of June. I did the professional thing and made my vacation plans (costly I might add because it is a time with high incidence of vacation travel) based on the agreed upon/published calendar. I think there should be NO conversation around second guessing the placement of the MU days now that a situation has arisen. The only conversation should be around what we do ONCE WE EXHAUST THE MU DAYS. But we need to start with our MU days, otherwise, why even bother pretending we have an approved calendar????
ReplyDelete11:01--at this rate of getting 1 or 2 snowdays a week and nanothe rsotmr projected for next week, THE DISTRICT NEEDS TO BE PROACTIVE. We are almost at all our MU days. It is not about one or two people but what is best for the majority of kids--yes kids, not teachers. I am a teacher with kids in Norwalk schools and I have plans--plans that i can cancel and think that we should for my children and the students in my classroom who are missing so much with all these snowdays.
ReplyDeleteThis is a little bit off the subject, but it has to do with snow and safety. Does anyone know if any of the roofs of our schools have been cleaned off? Don't most schools have a flat roof?
ReplyDeleteWhoever you are teacher 2:34, thank you for thinking about the kids first! And teacher 11:01, you're in a kid-filled business worrying about adults, you might want to rethink why you've chosen your career.
ReplyDeleteGood question 2:44.....does anyone know?? That is something to worry about.
ReplyDeleteYes I am in "kid-filled" business. However I am not some sort of sainted missionary. I have rights as an employee with a negotiated contract with the district, and though I do love my elementary students let's be clear that the reason I choose to work first and foremost is the reality having bills to pay in my household. The children are a joy, but let's be real this is my job. Sorry but that's the truth, the same truth that all other employees in other careers live by. If you want a saint, hire Mother Teresa. I expect the district to uphold the agreement of the published calendar. Could I just choose to switch my vacation days around at will? No. We cannot even plan a wedding on days that are not vacation days published on that calendar. Should the calendar be binding only when it benefits the will of the employer? Let me know how good hearted you are with your employer when they try to yank away your vacation that you paid and planned based on the days that they agreed would be free and clear for you to plan. We have 4 nonrefundable airline seats to Rome. Do you want me to also donate my paycheck to the system because I chose a "kid-filled business"? We are not your domestic help, we are not your priests and martyrs. We are adults who rely on good faith agreements with our employers. Susan Marks has an obligation to live by the existing MU days in the calendar rather than changing the agreement midstream once plans have already been made. I don't understand why we would even go through the game of having the boe approve a calendar with MU days if we don't agree to live by them. Now if we go past the MU days published in the calendar that is an entirely different issue and I will have to take a hit for that. But I do think our contract wording should be changed to say that snow days beyond the number of identified MU days will be taken from the Feb vacation (or Apr vacation), so teachers should not make plans which cannot be cancelled. That is the fair thing to do. Be up front with it. Keep in mind that we teachers aren't even permitted to plan our wedding during the non-vacation days in the school calendar. We work things like that kind of major life event around the published calendar. Should we not expect the same professional courtesy from the district in return and be able to count on using the MU days that are there in June? What's fair is fair. And yes believe it or not I do love and care about the kids. But I work for a living. My family cannot afford to lose our airline tickets.
ReplyDelete3:00 a.m. - I am not a school employee and I have no personal stake in this debate, but I agree completely with your argument, which is very well written. I want to add that it is also unfair to students whose parents would have to keep them out of school during any make-up days in February, even if those days are excused, because the students would be missing instruction.
ReplyDeleteThe calendar already addresses make-up days, and there is no provision in either policy or past practice to use the February vacation to supplement those make-up days, unless, as you said, the district runs out of make-up days.
3:00 - excellent post! 5:03 - bravo to you for having the good sense to see that!
ReplyDeleteA well-reasoned response, 3:00. The calendar was agreed upon by all stakeholders last year. Make up days should be exhausted first, as agreed and approved. If the last day becomes June 30, so be it. Change things for next year, but the only fair thing to do is for the board to honor its agreement to the kids and employees in the district.
ReplyDeleteThe teacher bashing continues, but isn't it sort of sad that those on the front lines with the kids have to defend themselves from those that really have trouble seeing them as employees and breadwinners? I would bet that there aren't too many teachers, parents, or kids that would be excited about going to school until June 30, but it won't be the first time (see last year) that the year has gone deep into June. It is high time that this district make some serious changes to the school calendar, but this year should be a done deal.
With all these snow days, I really would like for February break to be cancelled, I know people have plans and places to go. But as my last year I rather make up the days now, because with all this going on I barely had enough time to ask my teachers for help when midterms came around. I am pretty sure other students could not get the extra help needed as well. It really isn't anyone's fault, just really bad weather, but I am sure students cant learn with : learning one thing, the next day or two not having school, then going on to the next thing because of time being wasted, I know I cant.
ReplyDelete-Opinion from Student.
This isn't just about the calendar, it's about productive class time with the kids. If the MU calendar in June was about academics and NOT about watching movies or simply acting as a holding pen for the kids, in order to honor state mandatory days, I would have no problem living with the MU calendar.
ReplyDeleteSadly, mother nature and a very well negotiated contract will trump academic rigor and add 7 more days of sub-standard time to our school calendar.
And since we are speaking about contracts, where is the contract with parents and taxpayers about adult accountability in education and student results? Every other profession unionized or not has standards and results that must be adhered to ...why is education such a sacred cow?
For many of us parents, this is not about teacher bashing...its about a broken educational system. Privately most teachers and adminstrators will admit that the system is flawed, even if they will not do so publicly.
Since one of the poster's wanted to point to their contract, there are several other contractual components that should be pointed out as well, like defined pensions, fantastic healthcare benefits and a very generous holiday package (that would enable you to have a fantastic summer wedding!!!) Most of the rest of us have 2-3 weeks for the year!
If our educational standards drop much further not only in Norwalk, but as a nation, those other contractual components will be placed in severe jeopardy by an uneducated population, earning minimum wage and who can't afford to buy a house, that pays the taxes, that pays their beloved teacher's benefits.
Just soemthing to think about...
By "adult accountability" I hope you include parents! Even the best and brightest teachers can't teach someone who isn't prepared to learn. We give breakfast, lunch, food on the weekends, clothes, backpacks,baskets of food for Thanksgiving, presents for Christmas, pick up parents for conferences and meetings otherwise they wouldn't come, and you want to blame the problems with the system solely on the teachers and administators?
ReplyDeleteAt the bus stop today most parents were saying they hoped vacations would be used because then they wouldn't have to worry about daycare that week. School at the end of June is a problem for them too, camp is already paid for. Thats what they are worried about, not test preparation...
As far as you only getting 2 weeks vacation...why should teachers have to feel bad or apologize for the benefits of their profession...should Doctors and lawyers take a pay cut and work more days...what about police officers and firemen, they actually have better benefits than teachers...we all chose our professions...what about CEO's and other high paying execs. Just because you are unhappy in your job, don't take it out on teachers....go back to school if you think their job is so great...I bet it is harder than you think
out of curiosity, how many of you who are opposed to the MU days in June went to Board meetings last Spring when the calendar was proposed? Its a little late to complain about it now, don't you think? June has always had MU days! This is not something new. I'm not saying that I like it but now is not the time to question it.
ReplyDelete"For many of us parents, this is not about teacher bashing..." No, 10:58--you want to get to the real crux of the matter-"the broken educational system". Save that drivel for your friends who have kids in private schools. We are discussing a good faith agreeement made concerning the school calendar. Stop the whining, and become a teacher. You're obviously jealous.
ReplyDeleteTo the student with concerns: As one of the primary stakeholders in this matter, it is important to share your realistic concerns with the powers that be. Students should have a very strong voice in the future of school calendar reform.
teachers are not the only one for which the calendar is an agreement...parents rely on that calendar too, we make vacation plans, sign kids up for vacation camp etc. should we lose money paid, money that we maybe can't afford to just lose, should we cancel our long awaited vacations, if we don't our kids will miss school and instructional time. Some of us have planned other things during school breaks,Dr. appointments and medical procedures,my child sees a specialist that books a year in advance for choice appointments, teachers schedule things like that as well, school breaks are not just used for going away! This is a lot more complicated than some of you think it is.
ReplyDeleteI pray every night I can get my kids out of this broken system which I have put my faith and effort in.
ReplyDeleteI am disgusted.
I sure hope the teachers who've posted above are the exception and not the rule. I agree with poster 5:40, I am disgusted.
ReplyDeletePerhaps we should re-think the entire week-long break system. Has anyone considered letting the children have vacation the last two weeks in December, or the last week in December and the first week in January and then have them in school for the rest of the year with, of course, the designated holidays from President's Day to Memorial Day. I know many parents may jet off here and there during each of the three week-long vacations, but it doesn't seem to be condusive to learning. Why not just have one long vacation and have the grading period end just before the vacation so children begin a new grading period upon return. The vacation system and grading periods just seem so choppy. Why have a week off just before major testing anyway? If anyting it should after the test. These are just off-the-top thoughts, but the vacation system and the grading periods need re-thinking.
ReplyDeleteOur school system isn't broken, it's just multifaceted. As a result, responding to a historic blizzard is more challenging for Norwalk than other local communities.
ReplyDeleteIf the Superintendent decides to schedule classes during February break, we should make sure that teachers and students who are unable to change their plans are not penalized either financially, administratively or academically. To do otherwise would be unjust.
To the last poster: while it is commendable that you don't want teachers with vacation plans to be penalized financially if they cannot come to work during Feb vacation, I think you are overlooking an important factor. What about the equity for those who DON'T have tickets, and would have to work to earn their pay that week while their peers are not only on a vacation trip but getting paid not to work. You have to think about fairness to all. Not just those with tickets to travel. Those who would not be reporting to work should NOT be paid that week.
ReplyDeleteI think all of you are missing the big picture--it is about the kids! I am a teacher with no plans and AM HAPPY, yes, thrilled that the district is thinking about our kids first. They need school. Too many people are so wrapped up in what is right and wrong and who works hard, who deserves what that you are missing the point. Our kids need to go to school--they have missed too much.
ReplyDeleteAgree 5:08--I am a new parent to the NPS system--with a kinder child and feel that all I hear is the negative. Parents and teachers need to be working together--it is not only what the teachers do intheir 6 hours with our kids but we as parents need to do that make our school system work well.
ReplyDeleteThank you 5:08. I, too, am a teacher. Like so many in my building, I am very concerned about my students, and am happy the district is putting them first. Eliminating February break is the only way to get them back on track from the disruption caused by mother nature, and to prepare them for CMT's in March.
ReplyDeleteI am sure there will be a way to iron out the issues for teachers who have already paid for vacations. It may need to be done on a case by case basis. I just want to be in my classroom with my kids
It disturbs me deeply to read some of the above posts - this is the kind of attitude that has given teachers a bad rap. If only we could all approach these difficulties with a spirit of cooperation rather than a "what's in it for me?" attitude, we would come a long way toward mending a troubled school system.
It is important to note with this survey that you can vote as many times as you want; and to the person above who asked, you can see the results each time you vote. I know that a number of individuals who voted multiple times to get their choice counted more than once.
ReplyDeleteDespite a flawed survey for the reason above, I am so thrilled to see people using technology to express themselves in the process, and have their voices heard. I was amazed at how many people used emails chains and posted on their FB walls to direct people to the link for the survey our district's website.
Technology is the future, and investment in technology will save the district money. Can you imagine the cost if this one survey was sent out on actual paper to every child in Norwalk?
Paper and ink cost, and staff time copying, sorting, and driving the copies to each school, and then more staff time to hand it to individual teachers to then hand to the kids. We also know how unreliable our older children (at least mine I can say) are to finish the job and deliver any flyer in a timely manner.
I hope we continue to invest in projects like the new Norwalk Public Schools' Website which now centralizes and standardizes all the schools' webpages. There is much more to planned to do with technology, and my fear is that the proposed cutting head count in the Norwalk Schools' IT department only will set us back Norwalk's progress.
Wow. Are you serious? Nothing like patting yourself on the back in public and pretending like it is a citizen's comment. Give people some credit for having brains. We all know who wrote that comment.
ReplyDeleteI don't who wrote it?
ReplyDelete